Shannon Baker, Baptist Resource Network director of communications and editor of BRN United, had the opportunity to interview Dr. Jeff Iorg, president and CEO of the Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee. Here is a transcript of the interview:
The most important question first: How can we pray for you?
Thank you. Pray for my stamina, that I can keep up the pace of the job and the demands and pray for wisdom and insight. Every single day brings new challenges, and I just have to have the wisdom and insight to apply biblical standards and principles into complex situations. And so those are my two big prayer requests: stamina, and wisdom and insight.
Knowing your history as a church planter and state executive director in the Northwest, please express your understanding of how different ministry is outside of the South.
I lived for 35 years on the West Coast and have devoted most of my ministry to life outside the South, while at the same time, having an extensive national speaking ministry that continually invited me back into the South. So, I’ve been living in these two worlds for a long time. Some of the things I think are really strong about the work that we’re doing outside the Bible Belt? First of all, people that are in pioneer areas or in emerging areas are really focused on the mission and don’t really have as much interest in a lot of the side issues that we seem to want to debate. A lot of the time in Southern Baptist life, they are really focused on reaching the lost, discipling the saved, building the churches, and sending out more people to do the same thing. So that’s one part that’s different.
The other thing is, at least in the West, there’s a lot more prevalence of multicultural churches. In the South, I still find the churches are largely monocultural. There are African-American churches, Anglo churches, Hispanic churches, Asian churches. But in the West, there’s a great deal more multiculturalism, and I found that to be an enriching and valuable and an important part of my spiritual development. So, that’s a thing that I noticed.
And another difference that really strikes me is that, I think, outside the South, it amazes me how much people get done with limited resources. There’s just not nearly as much money, quite frankly, and yet there’s this much creativity, and there’s as much desire and zeal for God’s work. And so I’ve always been impressed with how industrious and how innovative people are with the resources they have.
Those are some things I noticed that are different and some encouraging things I would say about those of you who work outside the Deep South in terms of the strengths of our work.
Speaking of the non-South, how would you communicate to smaller non-South conventions the importance of contributing to the Cooperative Program (CP) when their representation on entity boards is being revoked because of membership number thresholds?
Well, this is an issue that’s not just in smaller state conventions. We actually have some larger states that have, for different reasons, had their membership threshold numbers lowered and their representation lowered, and this is a significant issue for me. I have quietly appointed a group to work on this issue (a group of state executives and some others to bring a set of recommendations so that we can really consider what those might look like later this year).
It’s a complex problem, but it’s also a problem that has real morale issues that motivate us to want to solve it (because we want everybody to feel included and not excluded). And we want everyone also to keep accurate records and not just inflate numbers to get representation. And so, I would say don’t give up on the system that we have, recognizing we are looking at how we can improve it or change it, and that it isn’t just an non-South state issue. There are some Southern states, also, that are facing this dilemma. There’s a broad motivation to address this issue, and like I said, I have a workgroup working on it behind the scenes to try to bring forward some recommendations later this year.
Thank you for that. That’s really appreciated. We really do appreciate that. Another related question regarding the Cooperative Program. We are noticing a lot of direct giving going straight to Lottie Moon and Annie Armstrong [mission offerings], and bypassing the Cooperative Program altogether. As you know, part of [the Baptist Resource Network’s] funding (or most of our funding) comes through the Cooperative Program channel. So, how do we encourage churches to still give through the Cooperative Program channels knowing that only 40% goes to the North American Mission Board (NAMB) and only 60 percent goes to the International Mission Board (IMB)’s operational budget?
Well, I think that the Cooperative Program is the means by which Southern Baptists have built a global ministry approach. By that I mean, it supports missionaries, it supports church plants, it supports ministries that facilitate church strengthening like evangelism and other things through NAMB. It also supports things like seminaries, that produce leaders; they produce missionaries. So, the Cooperative Program really is the well-rounded approach that supports all that we’re doing as Southern Baptists. And I’m, listen, I’m a personal “above and beyond” donor to both mission boards, all right? I believe in their work and after I’ve given generously to my church so that we can give through the Cooperative Program, I also give to these other mission boards. So I think it’s the “both-and” approach that I would advocate.
Churches give through the Cooperative Program because that makes sure that they have a strong state convention, they make sure they have strong seminaries and strong mission boards. They make sure that the overall work of Southern Baptists is strengthened and maintained, and then, above and beyond that, the opportunities to give specifically particularly to missions, which I think many Southern Baptists enjoy doing.
It sounds familiar to the tithe and offering scenario.
Yes. It really does. You know, most churches need members to give unrestricted gifts through a budgeting process that makes things like paying the light bill possible. Well, that’s partly what the Cooperative Program makes possible as well.
That’s good, very good. Well, amongst all the recent issues facing the SBC, how/why would you encourage a church to remain a part of the SBC rather than run off to be independent or non-denominational?
Well, first of all, I would encourage every church to look at its history and its founding and the resources that started it and recognize they have a deep appreciation for and loyalty to Southern Baptists because of those issues. Second, I would encourage churches to look at the results that they’ve achieved by being part of the Southern Baptist Convention.
It amazes me when people say, “Well, I’m going to leave the SBC.” An older man once asked me when I was making a similar statement as a young pastor in frustration. He said, “Well, where are you going?” I said, “Well, what do you mean?” He goes, “Well, where are you going where you can accomplish what you’re accomplishing as Southern Baptists?” He said, “Look at all that we’re doing all around the world, and not just in the mission boards, but in things like associations and state conventions and things like the Serve Tour that you’re about to launch. And, then, across the country: hospitals, childcare facilities or retirement centers, camps, conferences, conference centers, and just on down the line, … collegiate ministries, all these things!” He said, “Why would you want to leave that?” And I think the problem is, we tend to fixate on the problem and say, “I’m upset about this problem or that problem,” and not keep it in perspective of the global impact that we’re making.
So I would say to the churches, “Look first to your heritage. How did we get here? And out of appreciation, we want to remain part of the family, but then in the present and future, how can we make the biggest global impact?” And I really don’t think you can make the biggest global impact by going independent. I think you can make the biggest global impact by staying a part of something that is making an unbelievable impact all around the world.
That’s a great answer. Thank you. That was really great. Very inspiring. Speaking of inspiring, you know I’ve personally heard your story of transferring Golden Gate Seminary to Gateway Seminary from San Francisco, all the way to Southern California. It is very inspirational and took a lot of leadership, and there were a lot of miracles. So, in your new role, are you seeing miracles and can you share some that will help invigorate our faith?
Well, this might be more of a personal story, but most people don’t know that two weeks before the Southern Baptist Convention last year, I had surgery, and I went into that convention physically depleted. I was not at any risk to participate. It wasn’t that kind of surgery, but I needed, … I wasn’t really physically strong, and I prayed, “God, You have to sustain me through this!” And He did. And then when I made the speech at the convention and the overwhelming positive response of the messengers, I remember stepping aside and looking at that response and not feeling proud or anything like that. But instead praying this: “God, what is happening here? This can only be explained because You’re at work. You’re at work. And so, the fact that that we had that kind of unity at the convention and that I knew personally how weak I was in the moment and how God had sustained me, that was a miracle moment for me on a personal basis
And then on a larger scale, I see so many things happening that just astounded me really: 1,500 missionary candidates in the pipeline, according to Dr. [Paul] Chitwood. Just recently, Baptist Press announced that Send Network had approved their largest single group of church planters in their history. When I look at those, I think that’s God at work. There’s no explanation for that because if you look at secular media, particularly, all they say is Southern Baptists are evil. We’re broken. We don’t have any contribution left to make. Nobody wants to be associated with us. But then you look on the other side and you see that tens—that hundreds and hundreds—of young adults are stepping forward and saying, not only do we want to be a part, we want to sacrifice our lives in leadership! I just see God at work in that way and really in miraculous ways to raise up these people that are going to be our future generation of leader. So, that’s a couple of things I’ve experienced that I see happening, and I’m grateful for those.
I am, too! Thank you so much. Well, can you explain briefly—because I know this is a big topic—how you’re addressing the challenges of the sexual abuse. And I understand the way you’ve put people in place to do that, but beyond that, how has it felt to have to take on someone else’s debt, the prior administration’s debt, and how are you going to work through that?
Well, let me answer that. It’s really two separate questions. First of all, when I came into this responsibility, I knew what was happening, and I’m not saddened by it, or shocked by it, or disappointed by it. I knew what I was accepting when I took the job, and I’ve taken it on gladly because I believe Southern Baptists are a force for good, and my responsibility is to lead us through a season of difficulty in turmoil and get us back to a place of healthier operation and then on we go. And that’s really what I’m focused on doing.
And then the second part of your question was about the sexual abuse response. You know, for the first time, really, we’re now making, as a convention of churches, we’re now making specific, concrete steps to put into place an organizational response. Not that the Task Force wasn’t helpful, but their job was to generate ideas, uncover issues, make recommendations. Now we’re actually putting those into place, and so, we have developed a curriculum which were now revising for a beta version, which will be available to churches indefinitely into the future and how they can strengthen themselves in this area. We’re networking state convention leaders, making sure that we have the leadership identified in every state that we can coordinate with from a national denominational perspective, to make sure that localized leadership is strong. We’ve hired Jeff Dalrymple and given him responsibility for leading out in all of this area. We’re really significantly revising the website presence and the web presence of Southern Baptists on this issue of sexual abuse prevention and response. We’ve created an advisory group that will be advising Jeff Dalrymple about his work going forward. We’re creating that in two steps because we want people to serve two-year terms. We put a few on this year. We’ll put a few more on next year, then they’ll be a rotation of service, that kind of thing. And then we are also planning this event at the SBC in Dallas called “Safeguarding the Next Generation,” which will be sort of a flagship event for this effort to bring people together, hear presentations, distribute materials, and further motivate the convention in this area.
So, when it comes to organizational change, my leadership style is to make methodical, defined, concrete steps of action, that produce long-term results. And so, the convention voted last June, the executive committee decided in September to move forward in this area, we started interviewing people, and by January we had selected Jeff Dalrymple, and now we’ve been working to get all the way through till June of this year to put this first set of initiatives into place and then we go on from there. So I feel very positive about the steps we’re making. I feel like we’re making incremental but very specific and intentional progress forward and so I’m pleased with where we are. We’ve got a long way to go, but I’m pleased with where we are.
It’s really good to hear, Dr. Iorg. I’m really glad, just because we’re looking at the whole political climate in our nation and in the world, I should say, and there’s just a growing distrust among people and even a challenge to authority. And so, how would we—how would you address that from your top post, and how would you build trust among Southern Baptists?
Well, trust in organizations comes down to two factors. Number one, sacrificial service, and number two, a competent performance.
We trust people who serve us with competence. You trust your doctor, your accountant, your attorney. You trust your car mechanic. You trust people who serve you with competence. And I believe that as the executive committee establishes a new era of service with competence, trust will rise.
I don’t —I very seldom say and try to avoid saying— what I think is a leadership death nail, and that is “Trust me.” I try not to say that because I think that’s a pointless request. You don’t ask for people to trust you. You serve them well, and you serve them competently, and when you do those things, their trust level will rise. And that’s what I’m focusing on right now. Can we as the executive committee serve and do so with competence and then trust will rise? And that’s really the recipe for the for how I want to see trust enhanced in the SBC.
And you’re very wise to ask the question the way you did because this is not just a Southern Baptist problem. There is a rising sense of resistance to authority and of the deconstruction of institutions in our country. And while there’s always room for improvement in these areas and organizational improvement is always a possibility, attacking and simply tearing down is really not helpful. And I think that’s something that is going on, not just in the SBC but just more broadly, this resistance to authority and rejection of structure, and rejection of organizational design and an attack on that. So, yeah, we’re working on it, but we have to serve well (serve sacrificially) and demonstrate competence. And when you do those two things, trust rises.
Excellent! Well I might also add that you must serve with boldness, which leads me to my next question. We’re so grateful that you’re going to be a part of our Accelerate Conference, which is our annual meeting for the year (and our business session). We are focused on “Bold Move.” This is the second in a series of three meetings based off of Proverbs 28:1, “The righteous are bold as a lion.” And so knowing that and knowing that some pastors get discouraged, they get tired, how would you encourage them to remain bold in their setting?
First, a pastor must maintain their personal devotional relationship with God, which involves, at minimum, regular Bible reading and prayer, rest, and other spiritual disciplines that contribute to emotional and spiritual health. This morning, I got up early and spent time reading the Bible and praying to refocus my life and rekindle my commitment to my relationship with God, that’s Step One.
And Step Two, I would say to be the most encouraging thing a pastor can do today is to go share the gospel with somebody who’s not a Christian. That cuts through all of the ridiculous static in our lives and gets us down to the one thing we do that is the most exciting thing we do: that’s sharing the gospel with somebody. And so, personal devotion and personal witness, I think, are the two things that invigorate us and give us a sense of boldness and accomplishment and a sense of purpose and direction that God longs for us to have. So those are the two things I would say: rekindle your personal devotion and go share the gospel with somebody.
